The following is a 8 message exchange between 5 users
@9GGHH6H 7mos7MO
There is no biological difference between a new born baby and a baby who is about to be born, meaning birth does not determine personhood. If it does not there must be some other point at which the fetus becomes human. While I could see an argument that this should be heartbeat/brain activity, in my opinion the best candidate is conception, since this is the moment the fetus comes into existence genetically.
@9GH3435Independent7mos7MO
Birth does not determine personhood. A child's life begins at the moment of conception and in 99% of cases we should have no right to determine that child's fate based on actions they took no part in.
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
Even grown adult people do not have the right to use another person's body without their consent, so why exactly do you think a fetus should be entitled to do the same, whether you consider it "a person" or not..?
@ResilientVoting7mos7MO
You are conveniently excluding the most important part.
How responsible was the baby for getting themselves into the situation?
How responsible was the parent(s) for getting themselves into this situation?
Why do you think all the sacrifice should be transferred to the life that had 0% responsibility?
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
I'm not excluding it, because those questions are irrelevant. It does not matter who is responsible, because no one is entitled to the use of another person's body, for any reason. That is the simple fact of the matter: you do not have the right to use another person's body without their consent; simultaneously, you also have the right to decide who can or cannot use your body, hence why the fetus does not have any right to use its mother's body and the mother has every right to stop it from doing so.
@ResilientVoting7mos7MO
Your last sentence is a circular argument.
Also, can a conjoined twin decide to remove the other?
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
It is not a circular argument. We all have the right of bodily autonomy, which means that we have the ultimate say over who can or cannot use our body, hence why other people do not have any right to use your body without your consent. If someone is using your body without your consent, they are violating you and your bodily autonomy, and it is within your right of defense and autonomy to stop them from continuing to use your body against your consent. Again: the fetus does not have a right to use its mother's body, and doing so without her consent is violating her bodily autonomy, thus… Read more
@ResilientVoting6mos6MO
“So neither twin has consent over the other, as they each share consent over the same body. Conjoined twins would be more of a philosophical issue of democracy than of bodily autonomy.”
While there a circumstances where twins are definitely not sharing the same body, as one would die losing the other and one would thrive losing the other, I think you still make a really good argument.
