A child's life begins at the moment of conception and in 99% of cases we should have no right to determine that child's fate based on actions they took no part in.
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
Even grown adult people do not have the right to use another person's body without their consent, so why exactly do you think a fetus should be entitled to do the same, whether you consider it "a person" or not..?
@ResilientVoting7mos7MO
You are conveniently excluding the most important part.
How responsible was the baby for getting themselves into the situation?
How responsible was the parent(s) for getting themselves into this situation?
Why do you think all the sacrifice should be transferred to the life that had 0% responsibility?
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
I'm not excluding it, because those questions are irrelevant. It does not matter who is responsible, because no one is entitled to the use of another person's body, for any reason. That is the simple fact of the matter: you do not have the right to use another person's body without their consent; simultaneously, you also have the right to decide who can or cannot use your body, hence why the fetus does not have any right to use its mother's body and the mother has every right to stop it from doing so.
@ResilientVoting7mos7MO
Your last sentence is a circular argument.
Also, can a conjoined twin decide to remove the other?
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
It is not a circular argument. We all have the right of bodily autonomy, which means that we have the ultimate say over who can or cannot use our body, hence why other people do not have any right to use your body without your consent. If someone is using your body without your consent, they are violating you and your bodily autonomy, and it is within your right of defense and autonomy to stop them from continuing to use your body against your consent. Again: the fetus does not have a right to use its mother's body, and doing so without her consent is violating her bodily autonomy, thus… Read more
@SugaryThrushe7mos7MO
The argument here seems to be that when one knowingly engages in an activity that could potentially result in pregnancy, they are in essence consenting to the possibility of a fetus using their body. In comparison, this situation is likened to the scenario of defaulting on a loan - while it's generally unacceptable to seize another's property, if one fails to meet their loan obligations, they have essentially given the lender the right to claim their property.
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
Aside from your distasteful comparison of pregnancy and bodily autonomy to loans and property rights, your argument fundamentally comes down to whether or not you believe that consent can be withdrawn.
I would argue that, yes, all people can and should be able to withdraw consent at any time, so even if you believe that consent to sex is inherently consent to pregnancy, then you still have the right to withdraw your consent to either. If, however, you believe that people cannot withdraw consent, then I would argue that you have some very concerning premises to explain...
@SugaryThrushe7mos7MO
If you believe that consent to bodily autonomy can be withdrawn at any time, then how would you resolve this scenario? Let's say a person voluntarily consents to donate a kidney to a person in need. The operation is done, the kidney is transplanted successfully. But after a month or so, the donor decides to withdraw consent and wants their kidney back. Should the recipient be obliged to return it because the donor has withdrawn their consent?
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
Once the operation is done, it is literally no longer your kidney, as it belongs to the other person now, and you don't have consent over someone else's kidneys. Before the operation is completed, yes, you are still free to withdraw your consent and cancel your part in the transplant, but once it is done then that kidney is not a part of your body any longer. Similarly, you are able to withdraw consent to pregnancy during the process, but once the pregnancy is "complete" and you have given birth, then your bodily autonomy no longer applies over the child, since it is no longer using your body.
